LEAUKI POSTS:

There are several answers that satisfactorily explain why "same-sex sex" is immoral.

First,  we would have to agree from where and whom we get our sense and source of morality. If we agree morality is from God grounded in the natural law or moral law and in His revealed laws, then we can go forward. Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself, but which he must obey...for man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. Christ taught by moralizing, He clearly taught right, wrong and sin.

If it's man's own made up morality in which he exalts himself, a treatment of the self as the primary and or definitive source of morality, then we have a problem going forward. Why? Becasue moralizing today involves skirting moral absolutes in favor of values clarification, an insidious technique which usurps all traditional moral norms in favor of personal choice...what's morally right for you may not be morally right for the next person, but that's OK, cause you're OK and he's OK. Pope Benedict calls this the dictatorship of moral relativism. Some people live by the idea that a moral code is something which they create themselves, as if man were the source and norm or morality.

(This is a lie and where false things are and also getting ahead of myself with a second explanation of why same-sex sex is immoral and can't in any way be good and held equal to traditional marriage.)  

Yes this is true and God will judge we can be assured of that. Scripture says that homosexuality is a sin that cries out to Heaven for justice or something like that...anyway, as far as judging, we are not to judge the person's heart or soul, but we have a duty and responsibility both individually and as a society to judge behavior or actions..including sexual behavior and that's what this discussion is about, right? Same-sex sex is after all, behavior. Should government condone, approve and hold same-sex sex as equally good as sex within traditional marriage?  

Think about it Leauki,,,,that's what our laws are all about...judging behavior or someone's actions. That's what the people did in voting on Prop 8....

The Talmud claims that there were 974 generations before Adam. But that is besides the point.

The point is that other cultures have other traditions. Whether those traditions were lived or imagines doesn't matter. But monogamy is not the "traditional way". It is one of them.

Depends on your scripture. I can find the part in my holy book but I cannot find an explanation for it. I do not judge people without knowledge of why what they are doing is wrong. My assumption is that Jewish prohibitions referred to the ancient Greek style of promiscuous homosexuality.

This is going a bit far. Abortion is not a tool to repair a broken gene pool.

Thanks. Yours is probably the best arguments against both incest and abortion I have heard.

I am fine with people voting against gay marriage. That's not the point.

Its just going further!  People are saying we should not force morality on others, yet no matter how we try we will. I m stating what they could do to fix the situation, not what is right, supposedly its not our place to judge morality.

But it is our place to judge things done to other people.

LEAUKI POSTS:

Nope, there is no going away from this battle.

The US uses criminal penalties to police the morality of its citizens day in and day out..isn't that what police do when they arrest murderers, theives, and kidnappers--enforce laws based upon the immorality of those actions?

Jefferson and our other Founding Fathers understood a sense of morality comes naturally to all people as part of the natural or Moral law, sometimes called conscience. From the moral law, Jefferson observed that the self-evident unalienable rights of all people should be protected by a government established by the people. In other words, the Founders believed the higher authority, the "Creator" to whom we should appeal to establish objective moral grounds in our laws.  The Declaration was the moral statement that would later become the foundation of the Constitution. The Founders confirmed that establishing a morality was unavoidable and was derived from the Moral Law, the law not everyone obeys, but the law by which everyone expects to be treated.

So summing up, all laws judge actions or behavior by declaring directly or by implication that one behavior is right and its opposite is wrong. All good laws are just laws and to legislate justice is to legislate morality. Since securing justice is the primary function of government, so legislating morality is constitutional, but the question that is before us in this battle for marriage is whose morality should be legislated?

And this is where we get to the Big Lie that comes from the serpent/devil .....that man thinks he can redefine his own existence and make himself into his own thought up image and likeness apart from the Creators. This rebellion has been going on since Adam and Eve's and has been transmitted through the generations.

Micheal Jone's, Culture War, pretty much nails it when he writes, "No social progress outside the moral order"  and in one of the recent articles concerning marriage.....a minister writes....."Human freedom instead of being the liberty to do good, becomes the licence to do what feels good. Human relationships, particularly the marital relationship can in that sinful regime be shaped into any form we can negotiate with others. The result is the systematic enthronement of rape as secular paradigm for sexual relationships."

He goes on and makes a very good point...one that needs be said...

Real marriage is total freedom on part of both husband and wife...in such a relationship each party if free to give him/herself totally and receive the other totally.....This is why attempted "homosexual marriage" is a perversion of truth. Homosexuals cannot be fruitful or bound in mind and heart, becasue being the same sex, they are not complementary personalities. The goods of permanence, fidelty, and progeny are all impossible. We don't have to look at the Bible for this, it's obvious human reality and something that society must look at when considering "homosexual marriage".

Homosexual practioners attempting marriage are trying to mash themselves into a relationship that they cannot by their own choice make work. A couple cannot base intimate union on mutual abuse. Why becasue they are propagating the Big lIe through a series of derivative lies, big and small. Imagine a young boy growing up in a household in which two adult are both male and they regularly sodomize each other. The Great lie, derivitive of the Big lie is that this behavior is right, good and normal. The subsidiary lie is that the two males are "faithful" to one another when one or both are out cruising for sex, regularly or irregularly. This boy will not have a chance to understand real marital love, and that is spiritual, mental, psychological and, by extension, physical abuse.

When the Big Lie and the subsidiary lies are preached as truth in "families" such as this, there is a real danger that the broader community will suffer as this lie is protected in law and culture. In fact, the lie is being codified in country after country."

After this he writes about the "hate crime" legislation already operating in Europe and in Canada...and blogs have been written about such... by which pastors and priests can be fined, imprisoned for saying that homosexuality, the behavior, are evil, unhealthy and sinful. We know that the same legislation is pending in Washington DC and expected to be passed into law under the Obama administration.  If such happens, then I could be in trouble for even writing this article.

I second that!

Well in the way your using it ya beef is better then long pork. lol

Chicken isn't bad either.

Yeah, no straight people ever do that

isn't there a difference between morality and crimes?

What crimes in the US are there to enforce morality as opossed to preventing harm?  The crimes you list all cause harm to others and are treated as such and those doing such are arrested to prevent harm being done to others.

Can infertile people marry?  They are denied children as well, are their marriages worthless?

What if the gay people in the marriage don't sodmise each other?  Does that make it ok?

What if heterosexual people practice anal sex?

Is it the act of buggery you object to?

No. The laws are enforced based on the danger those actions represent to others.

We lock up (or execute) a murderer because of the danger he represents to other people, not because of the immorality of his crimes. We can forgive their crimes, but we cannot guarantee the safety of other people who might come into contact with dangerous criminals in future.

Laws are not about morality and never have been. Jewish law, to use an example from the Bible, prohibits the eating of pork. But eating pork is not immoral (and gentiles are free to eat pork if they like).

Infertility has always been a reason to get a divorce... so yes traditionally it is of less value.

They also enforce laws to protect citizens from themselves.  Suicide is against the law, same with dueling.  Both acts are with consenting adults.